Investing in your workforce results in a team of talent who are committed to the success of your company. In this month’s episode of Smart Route, we chat with two of our own about building the CallTrackingMetrics Mentorship Program and its impact on the organization. Ken Sylvain, Director of Customer Success and Jonathan Morgia, Account Executive Team Lead, share their personal experiences with mentors and how that inspired them to create a program to share ideas, foster productivity, and develop future technology leaders.
Ken and Jonathan walk us through their philosophy behind the CallTrackingMetrics Mentorship program and how it has evolved over the years. Plus, they share the qualities to look for in a good mentor, and tips on how to start a mentorship program at your organization.
Courtney Tyson (00:20):
Welcome to Smart Route. This is our sixth episode. I’m your host Courtney Tyson. Thanks for listening in today. I am super excited for this episode because I’ll be speaking with two of my CallTrackingMetrics colleagues, Ken Sylvain, our Director of Customer Success, and Jon Morgia, our Sales Team Lead. Both Ken and Jon have been with CTM for about three and a half years now. And both individually and collectively, they’ve had a huge impact on our organization. So welcome Jon and Ken. And thanks for being here. So let me give our listeners just a little bit of background as to why we’re here today with you specifically. Jon and Ken, they’re both very effective, inspirational leaders for our organization. Not only are they very passionate about developing and nurturing our customer relationships, but relationships internally as well.
They strive really to help others be the best they can be and realize their potential. And with that, Jon and Ken are here to talk about the amazing work they’ve put into both pioneering and implementing the CallTrackingMetrics Mentorship program. This program it’s been largely successful and extremely beneficial for many of our team members. So Jon and Ken, I’d like to talk to you both more about your experience of mentoring in general but also your experience building out the program. I think our listeners can really learn a lot from everything that you’ve learned throughout the process and the success that you’ve both had. So let’s dive right in. I know you both are very passionate about mentoring. You’ve been mentors, you’ve been mentees throughout your career. So let’s start talking a little bit about that. What has been your experience as a mentor or mentee, and what about that experience has helped you to grow in your careers?
Ken Sylvain (02:19):
Sure. Well, I mean, this is something I, as you can tell already, I’m very passionate about. Many, many years ago, I worked at AOL and I had a director come to me and asked me to start a new team. And while that was exciting, getting that opportunity, what was even bigger for me was having a mentor. I mean, he really taught me how to navigate through the corporate borders, how to communicate effectively, how to really build a team and empower them. And it’s such a big help for me through the years that at times made all the difference. And I’ve been able to do that with other people. And what you realize is that when you get these nuggets of how, just how invaluable and how life-changing it can be. So it’s kind of automatic this, see, okay, how can I do that here? Cause I really love what we’re doing at CallTrackingMetrics. Well, how can we help others grow and be that much more effective in their jobs?
Jon Morgia (03:21):
Yeah, I’ll speak on my experience when it first started. For me from a mentor-mentee experience was I was in my first job, my first kind of like, I don’t wanna say “real job,” but job out in the workforce and spent a couple years in a sales role. And I was only really worried about, you know, my sales and myself. I was young you know, I did my job, I did my work, I went home, I had my fun and, and that was how it was. And it was great. And I had this new manager come in and it was an eye opening experience and I’ll never forget it.
He looked at me and he asked me to self assess myself, how am I doing, et cetera. And I tooted my horn. I said, I’m one of your top sales reps. You know, I help other people out and really good at what I do, but yeah, you know, kind of kinda hot shot, right. And he just looked at me and put me back in my place and he just called me a waste of talent. And he said he saw leadership skills in me and, and other attributes in me that I wasn’t using and that I should leverage those and use those not only for work, but for other employees. And I say this when I told, when I’ve told this story over the years, it’s kind of like he turned my light switch on into not only, you know, maybe my potential leadership skills that I might have, but also just in general that says, you know, sometimes, you know, you need to be talked, talked into what you’re capable of.
And through the years ever since that moment you know, I, wasn’t very happy when he told me I was a waste of talent. Let’s get that straight. Right. But over the over the years that I got to work with him in different capacities he really helped kind of guide me in a direction of, you know, keeping me in check and making sure, you know, I had my head on, on the right place and, and going in the right ways. And it would allowed me to understand that mentor, mentee relationship that says, you know, sometimes you do need a little bit of help and a guide where you’re going to help you get better. Kind of like a player coach kind of mentality. And I’ve taken that with me over the last you know, 10 plus years and the workspace that I’ve been working on.
Courtney Tyson (05:41):
Well, it’s, it’s nice. It’s, it’s great to hear your personal experiences. Like what was it that really made you so passionate about, about mentoring? How did it have an effect on you? And so, you know, being that you’re heading up the program and you’ve had some experience with mentorsand being a mentor, what do you feel like the best qualities of a good mentor and mentee are?
Jon Morgia (06:09):
Ken, I’ll let you kind of stop at that one first. I know in the program deck, I think you put together some of the qualities of a mentor mentee, right?
Ken Sylvain (06:16):
Sure. Number one is you’ve got to careParticularly for mentors because it’s a commitment, it’s a time commitment. So if they care, they really want to make a difference. They’re going to invest that time. The other piece is making sure that they understand that for a mentor, part of the role is really to be accomplice, not a GPS where we’re not going to tell the mentee exactly what to do is really more so, whereas true more, how do you kind of orient yourself so you can get a different perspective.
The next is being a counselor where you want to give the mentees, somebody they can go to where they can kind of just spilled, spill their guts, tell her, hi, this is what happened. So they can get a different perspective. Sometimes they can actually work it out, just back in the talent.
And then the last thing is being a cheerleader. So it’s a compass, consular and cheerleader. And the cheerleader is where the mentor is wanting to be working in their behalf where, you know what I got you, I believe in you, I’m going to encourage you. So you’re constantly rooting that person on encouraging them to go forward. So when, when you have those three things, the mentor can allow and really empower the mentee to see things differently and be that much better. Now, from my mentees standpoint, they have to be honest, they need to be prudent so that, you know, you don’t necessarily share everything, but recognize the relationship and understand that for you to get the most out of this. That means you need to be brave enough to kind of let go open up and really expose some of your challenges so that you can get past that. So having that honesty and bravery and being open to that communication to the relationship really can enable both people to kind of transcend it and become that much better.
Courtney Tyson (08:14):
Thanks, Ken. Jon, do you want to add anything to that?
Jon Morgia (08:17):
Yeah. I think, you know, obviously echoing all of those suggestions and additives you know, you get in what you put out it’s like anything else, right. So as a, from a mentees perspective what’s unique about the program we’re doing here is, you know, we pair folks up with, with different people that are in different organization, different sides of the organization, right? So, you know, somebody on the sales team might work with a developer and vice versa and whoever. So we try to kind of make it in that atmosphere and in that light what helps that process is, you know, we’re learning people and learning and meeting these new people in a different capacity. So it’s not just, you know, like my first experience when I, when I told my opening story of, you know, Hey, my new boss came in and, and, you know, we developed a relationship that way.
It’s like, you know, for our program, it’s a little bit different, you know, we’re not really choosing your mentor, your, or mentoring, you’re kind of meeting new people and working together. So you do have to be open. You do have to be willing to put some you know, some effort into the program. And then along with that, I like the philosophy side of things, the philosophical side of it. And you know, really being able to get a read on each other and get a read on, you know, well, how much does this person want out of it? Right. You know, I may be gung ho and I want to talk to you three times a week and really put a path forward on all these different areas of my life and my work-life balance or my career or whatever. But Ken might be working with someone that says, cool, I want a little more relaxed approach to this process.
And I want to work at this pace rather than that pace. So I think there’s also a part of that, where if you’re a future mentor and you decide to work with somebody and take that time on, you know, there’s a time to push someone, but there’s a time to also work at their pace. And there’s a lot of that, that reading of people as you go along that process to make sure, you know, you’re, you’re mentoring in the right way in the right shape and form. There’s not one size fits all. It’s very much in a leadership and coaching area, you know, it’s not a one size fit all. It’s definitely making sure to work with that person to get a good plan and a good path forward.
Courtney Tyson (10:28):
Thanks, Jon. And those are all really, really great points. You know, I think as, as a mentor and a mentee go into a program like this, it’s really nice to kind of think about beforehand what those good qualities are, so that really they can be as effective as possible. So I think we know a little bit more, I think we know about why you decided to start this program, right. I mean, mentoring has had a huge impact on both of your careers, so you’re very passionate about the concept. But I know there’s more to the story than that. And I, so I want to, I want either of you to kind of share, you know, how the program came to fruition at CallTrackingMetrics, and then I want to talk a bit more too about, I know you touched on this a little bit, Jon, just now I want to talk a little bit more about too, like the format as well and how the format came to fruition too. Cause I know that was a work in progress over a period of time. So tell us more about the story behind how the CallTrackingMetrics program came to be.
Jon Morgia (11:32):
Yeah. I can take the first part of that, maybe Ken and, and kinda tell us how it really started. So Ken and I were both hired within a few months, I believe in 2018. We were a younger company then, I mean, I think maybe seven, six or seven years old at that point or young. And what’s really one of the things we love about working here too. Are our owners and leadership took a very big notice in saying, you know, let’s do an eNPS, a quarterly NPS survey of, of our employees and find out what’s working. What’s not, you know, what do we need to add? What do we need to miss? And, and we have these still today, and I think they’re very valuable and it’s nice. But that’s kinda how this program started is in the end of 2018.
You know, one of the feedbacks that we got from the survey from all from our employees was, you know, what can we do more to help you know, make us better as an employee and, and, you know, give us more of an olive branch into other sides of you know, the, the business that we do and, and grow as, as individuals. And from there kind of developed of, you know, maybe we can have some sort of a program that is like some sort of a mentoring type, you know, the initial of it was not, Hey, we’re going to do a mentor program. It was, you know, what can we put in place to kind of get like a leadership style program? And, and I think Ken and I were at [our COO, Laure’s] door within 10 minutes of that meeting or via email, you know, knock it on there and said, Hey, we would love to participate in this.
So that’s kinda how it started. And Ken and I worked together over a few months to really just brainstorm and kind of figure out some ideas and, and you know, we took some ideas from some of the other leaders and directors in the business and got some of their feedback as we kind of cultivated you know, a plan of action. And you know, over the years it’s definitely changed and come into fruition. I’ll let Ken kind of talk about how some of the first ideas were good, but we had to pivot and move after each kind of session that we did with, with different different candidates over the years.
Courtney Tyson (13:44):
I love that story so much because I could literally envision you guys standing at Laure’s door. So excited to just, can we do this right. We have a great idea. Let’s, let’s do it right. So I love that. So I’m, I’m lucky because I’m actually a part of the program right now. I’m I’m a mentee. I have an amazing mentor. Who’s taught me a lot and we’re, we’re nearing the end of the program. So, so, so our listeners know this is a six month program. And so I want Ken to talk a little bit more about, you know, why this format was decided on, like, what is the overall structure you know, now that the program has been live for a few rounds, you know, what did you learn that kind of helped you land on the format that, that it is today?
Ken Sylvain (14:33):
Sure. Thank you. Great question. And you probably have gotten a handle on this from a lot of things Jon has mentioned already, and that is, this is truly an evolving process where we’re starting really the first class, we were very pleased with how well everything worked and the, the, the mentees felt they had grown. The mentors felt that they had grown as well, but in with each class, they have different ideas of, you know, what it would be nice if you guys did such and such. So with each new session, we’ve tried different things. It’s always been kind of a marriage between having structure so that people have something to hold on to where these are some of the general topics, lifetime management, you know, branding of your own career development, but at the same time, it should be prescriptive. Meaning the mentee is going to have ideas of things that they want to work on.
And initially we had it more so where, okay, these are the topics each month, and eventually we have it. So that mentees before they’re even brought into the program are identifying, these are the three top things they want to work on. And what this has done is this has enabled us to find the more appropriate mentor. So it’s an even better fit. So now we kind of have that balance between, okay, these are the program topics, and these are the topics that the mentees have identified. So you have that prescriptive component as well. Some of the other things that have happened is that they’ve asked for more sessions where we get everybody together where this is really a sense of a class, a, of a group where you belong. And I believe that that affinity has really helped to encourage everybody to really bring them down much closer together. And it really helps the company overall as well. So that there’s things that we were constantly going back to the mentors and the mentees to say, okay, how are things going? Is there something you’d like for us to see differently? And I’m curious to see, even with this latest class, what’s the next thing that they’d like to see as we go to the next period, but
Courtney Tyson (16:45):
What I liked personally too, about the program, or just like the, the kind of like the specific assignments throughout it, right. So, you know, I think one of the first things we did was a personality test for it, really the results kind of make made you really think about, you know, the person you are both at home, but at work. We did another assignment where it was, you know, we talked about how do we think others see us? What do we think are our strengths, our weaknesses, how do we want to be seen? And having those conversations, you know, really have helped me think more about my future a lot differently than I did prior to, to pairing up with my mentor. So I think having like the assignment structure has been super beneficial. You know, I’ve, I’ve thought the pro the program has been really successful this round. I personally can’t think of any, you know, anything I would, I would add to it, but, you know, w where do you, and I’m sure you two have lots of ideas, you know, where do you see the program evolving? And especially as the company grows, you know, I think when this program started, we were probably what our company of around 30 employees. And now we’ve more than doubled in size.
Ken Sylvain (18:04):
Great question. And I think this actually speaks to why you have a mentor program in the first place, because that’s the company evolves and grows, and we have these ambitious plans. What about the people? And you got to make sure you continue to invest in the individuals. So what we’re looking at is, as we have these five-year plans and what we’d like to see, what are some of the things that the individuals have casts for themselves as well? So Jon and I have been working on how we can kind of deepen some of those resources that that bank of information that the mentors can pull from defer assist the mentees. And that really is something that’s kind of started to accumulate through the years. So now we have more information than what we did in the beginning. So we’re continuing to work with the leadership as well as the mentees, just to get a sense of what are some of their evolving needs as we move forward. So we can better position them for success.
Jon Morgia (19:08):
Yeah, that’s great. I mean, it’s one of the things that I don’t want to say keeps me up at night, but as the new year comes around, I love working with Ken cause we’re both like, all right, how do we make it better? What’s the next big thing? What can we do? And you know, the majority of, I think the program, really has been pretty solid from a consistency perspective. You know, some of the topics we chose were used over and over again, we had minor tweaks here and there. So I think, you know, sometimes it’s good that we reach out to other people in our office and make sure we’re kept grounded. It says, no, it was pretty good. You don’t have to do big changes, maybe little tweaks here, little tweaks there.
So you know, that’s kind of cool. One thing we didn’t talk about was just how last year we had our mentor program in the middle of a transition during COVID when we had to all work from our remote and work home. And that was one heck of a challenge too. Just, just being able to keep the wheels on the bus, so to speak for the program there, but it also allowed us to add, you know, something this year to it and the work from home element and something that our company hasn’t had to do. And, and that was a new thing that we got to add on this year, you know, tips and tricks of working from home, right. I mean, things that I would’ve never thought of, but, you know, making sure to have a good balance and, and, you know, your posture and don’t just wake up and go to your desk, right.
Wake up and have a routine, or just some little things there, right. That we were able to pass on that were helpful, not only to our total organization, but just in the program itself. So it’s really unique how sometimes, you know, things will just happen in life in general and help make the program of evolve you know, organically on its own as long as we allow it and realize it too. And just one little note that I had earlier, when, when you guys were talking before I forgot it was Courtney, you said, you know, you’re a mentee, this, this go around and, and, you know, you’d like to program, et cetera. It’s kind of fun. And you know, one thing I note is that, you know, we try not to bring our new hires on board into the program too soon.
We have a robust product and, when you’re new at a company and you’re trying to get your feet wet, right? You want to build a nice foundation and we don’t want to throw too much on folks’ plate and, give them time to adjust. So we typically have a under six months type scenario, not really on board yet. And you have to be with us a few months before you can get onto the program, but also as you go, and I think this is one of the things that’s going to be changing with and evolving with the program is, you know I’ll take myself for an example. I’ve been a mentor a couple times. There was one time where I sat out of being a mentor and actually just helped run the program.
And then this time around, I asked to be a mentee. We had enough space and capacity, and I am actually a mentee this time around. So one thing to always note that we kinda tell each other is, this is not a leadership exercise drill. This is a, I want to evolve as a person and get better and you can choose to be the mentor, the mentee and whatever you think might be needed for you at your time in your life and in your business Work-Life. So I was really lucky to get a great mentor this time around as well. And I got to learn a couple of things that I wanted to focus on myself. So I think that was really the best part that I like about this whole program in general is it’s nothing’s really set in stone. We keep it fluid, we adjust it is completely off the books of any performance reviews and things like that, this is just a, let’s get better as individuals work with people get better as a business and as people in general. And I think it’s pretty cool that we have that going so well for us. I’m really happy to be a part of it.
Courtney Tyson (22:52):
I was really hoping you were going to bring that up. You know, that our mentors have in many cases become mentees or have had the opportunity to be mentees. Right. I think that that’s just special. I think it kind of makes the program unique. It’s not that we’re just taking, you know, our colleagues in leadership positions and making them mentors and you’re in a leadership position yourself and you’re a mentee. I think this just goes to show why you’re both such great leaders, but also so great at leading the program too, because you’re always thinking about how to get better yourselves, but how to make the program better too. So so, you know, I think a lot of our, our listeners might not have access to a program like this. And so what type of advice would you have for those who want to find a mentor, but, you know, they don’t have access to an official mentorship program.
Ken Sylvain (23:49):
That’s a great question. In fact, I had my son ask that same question the other day. One of the neat things is that there’s actually a lot of resources out there. There’s a lot of mentor programs, you know, outside of your job, if your, if your job doesn’t happen to have more. And one of the things we always tell people to do first is look at their own network. You know, who are you connected with with LinkedIn? Are you a part of any professional groups or alumni networks? And there’s also industry events and there’s professional association. So there’s actually a lot of opportunities that are already out there. Something else is there’s even organizations where that’s what their job is. Like. I believe this one called micro mentor, and that’s a site that connects mentors with mentees. There’s another one called score mentors. And there’s even the small business development center, which is really operated by the U S small business administration where a part of their job is to try to connect people with mentors so they can help develop that business.
So there really are options out there. I do recommend people go to one of our best friends, Google and check. What are some of the options that are close to them? Definitely find your mind, your own network. First, the other piece is if you find somebody that you’d like for them to be your mentor, you may not want to come to them at front at first and say, Hey, I like you to be my mentor. That can be a little intimidating because people realize that that relationship can be very time consuming. What I would recommend first is just starting on the relationship, get to know them, make sure that they’re a good fit, allow them to get to know you if then if you feel that you know what, this could really be beneficial, go for it, make, make your pitch, but first focus on the relationship, because one of the things that we’ve found is that the best mentor relationships are curved when there’s a good fit. So I can’t emphasize that enough.
Courtney Tyson (25:59):
Thanks, Ben. Yeah, that’s a good point. You guys do a lot of work behind the scenes and matching up the mentors and mentees. I think it’s a good point to say too, like, don’t, you don’t have to put your, your mentor prospect into a box, right? Like they don’t have to have a specific title. Maybe they don’t work in the same role or, or, you know, industry as you at the same capacity as you, right at your organization or another organization, you know, just find someone that is a really good fit. So so I guess this one, this one will be for Jon then you know, there are, you know, our listeners out there who hopefully now have been encouraged to, you know, start a mentorship program of their own at their company. What, how would you recommend our listeners pitch a mentorship program at their own company?
Jon Morgia (26:48):
Blind luck, just go out there and fire away. No, I’m just kidding. So yeah, I mean, I think that’s a, that’s a, that’s a tough question, right? Cause there’s a lot of dynamics that go along with, you know, where you’re at in the company and where your company’s at and what are their resources, et cetera, et cetera. But I think a great way would definitely, you know, talk to talk to your initial boss first. It’s a good way to develop not only the relationship between you and your current, you know, boss. I think that’s just a great way to ask for advice, you know, continue that, that relationship with, you know, who you directly report to, if, if that’s a, you know, a great way to go, I think that’s, that’s a good a step in the right direction.
Jon Morgia (27:32):
HR is also a great avenue. If you happen to have an HR team or an HR director you know, those are traditionally confidential, you know, conversations and it allows you to kind of voice your opinion talk about it. So I would say find the right, you know, find one of those two people, if it’s a good person to talk with a couple of other things you could do. I mean, think about it this way. Right? So Ken and I luckily got to tag team this together, you know, pair up with someone that you think might be interested in this program as well. You know, persuasion and numbers is a great way to basically sell the product you’re trying to sell. Right. And that is a mentor program. So get someone else that might be on board with something like this to talk to, and also have on your corner to then pitch it.
But I think those are probably two great two great ways to initiate the process. When you do come to the table, just like anything else you can’t, you know, you can’t just say, Hey, what’s, let’s start this program, right. Come with information, come with ideas, come with maybe a, a rough draft or a pre predetermined idea of something that you might want to run and have in place to pitch. So that way it’s not just a thought or an idea, it’s a tangible, touch feel, product that you’re positioning, that won’t take much to lift and get off the ground and maybe even pilot with a couple other people. Right. So there’s a lot of different ways to make sure you know, this idea that you’re trying to sell internally to the company, isn’t a huge lift or a burden on the CEO or the, the HR department or whoever might be involved in that. Decision-Making
Courtney Tyson (29:09):
Well, great points. Well this has been, this has been really fun, learning more about kind of, you know, how the program started, you know, what what’s really your passion behind it all, why it’s been successful, how it’s evolved. You know, I’m, I’m I’m a, certainly a part of the program, but I didn’t know the whole background. So it was exciting for me to learn about your success because you know, I’m learning from you too, as, as I work with you both and you know, it’s been great working with you both. So I just want, thank you too, for taking time out of your day to chat with me and our listeners about all the success you’ve had. And, you know, I think many of our listeners will be encouraged to whether it be go out and, and find a mentor for themselves or, or even pitch a program at, at their respective companies to you know, I don’t think that I personally have ever worked for a company that has had such a great, you know, structured program. And, you know, like I said earlier, the, the benefits have just been, they’ve been great. So thank you both for, I would say thank you on behalf of myself, but our entire team, right. For, for putting all of the work into this, I know, you know, many, many of our team members have had such a great experience being a part of it. So thank you.
Jon Morgia (30:30):
Well, we thank you. As well. I mean, you know, we don’t have a program without people willing to participate and then, you know, Ken and I could do, do a good debrief of, of getting your feedback and making sure it’s honest, relentless feedback of, of was it good, bad or indifferent? Right. So having, having y’all is great, we love working with you all. And I think it’s, it’s so much fun. Just one thing I wanted to add in for anyone that would be listening is, you know, even if you don’t get a program developed, you know, like a mentor program like this, or something like that, you know, my first experience working with a mentor, it’s not like, you know, this dude was like, Hey Jon, I’m going to be your mentor, come under my wing. It, the conversation didn’t even really happen like that.
Right. I told you that initial conversation of how it started and, you know, I kinda gravitated towards that individual. And, and I picked his brain a little bit over the, you know, the first year that we started to work together and then it was, then we kind of developed that relationship of, you know, Hey, I want to continue to work with you. Help me teach me, coach me, that sort of thing. So, you know, your, it doesn’t have to have that label of mentor mentee. So if you already have that person, you’re sort of, kind of working with, you know, sometimes it could just be that unspoken mentoring style if you will. So keep that in mind too, but I love working with you, Courtney. You’re awesome. I appreciate it.
Courtney Tyson (31:47):
Thanks Jon ditto. And that was, that was a great last plug. I want to give Ken the chance to kinda, is there anything, you know, that, that you want to say before we conclude today? Sure.
Ken Sylvain (31:58):
First of all, thank you. Accordia, it’s been an honor to be a part of this. You’ve done so much for not just the mentoring program, but for the team as well. So we appreciate it. I have my thing would really be, and you guys have heard this before, share the love. And I started that when I was volunteering, I was actually president of a board and then I started applying it to work and I realized it was even more appropriate there because there’s so many things where people are helping you to succeed. Where you, you feel almost obligated to share it with somebody else. How can you help somebody else succeed as well? And sharing the love is really like, you can never give it away. The more you help other people grow and develop. You’ll find that you’re being helped that much more and your success will shine that much brighter. So, you know, just as Jon and I have enjoyed doing this, we’ve grown considerably. In fact, we’ve been promoted as a well, so there’s a lot of pluses to just simply helping people and sharing what you’ve learned.
Courtney Tyson (33:05):
Thanks, Ken, you are the best at sharing the love that’s for sure. You know, I’m really excited just to see what the future holds for the, both of you and for the program. So thanks, thanks again. And thanks to our listeners too, for listening in and keeping up with us. We are always sharing more about what our team is doing internally on our social channels. So, you know, keep up with us there. We’re on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. So check out, you know, the fun photos we post about, you know, the, the events that we have internally and the success of the different programs we have internally as well. And of course, you know, to keep up with our podcast, follow us at smart route pod on Twitter. Thanks again. And we’ll talk to you soon.